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Dear Clonie,
When calculating pot odds, do you deduct the amount of money
from the pot that you have already contributed yourself?
For instance, say you have an open-ended straight draw after the flop,
which gives you 2:1 odds to call; do you deduct from the total pot the
amount that you have already put in before the flop?
If you could give an explanation it would be appreciated.
Thanks, Wes Kendrick
Dear Wes,
I think that there is some confusion here as to the difference
between pot odds and hand odds. You need to remember that they are
two completely different things and they need to be figured out separately
before they can be put together to give you information about
whether or not you should make a call.
First of all, if you have an open ended straight draw, you are not
getting 2:1 odds to call, it is about 2:1 against you making that straight
(actually a little worse than that). The reason it is 2:1 against you is
because percentage-wise, the amount of time one of those eight cards
will come to make your straight, when you have both the turn and the
river to hit it, is close to 33%. This means that one time in three you will
make that straight. You will miss it twice and hit it once, so we say that
it’s 2:1 against you making it.
To figure out if the pot is giving you the right odds to draw to that
straight, you simply figure out how much is in the pot compared with
how much it costs you to make the call. To answer your question, you
do not subtract money you have put in the pot already – once it’s out
there, it’s out there. So, if there is $80 in the pot and it is costing you
$20 to call, you are getting 4:1 odds on your money and, mathematically,
you can make the call. However, in doing so, you must always keep
in mind that it may cost you more money on the turn, and you might
make your straight and still lose the pot to a flush or full house on
the river.
I hope this clears up some of the confusion about pot odds and
hand odds.
Clonie
Dear Clonie,
Hi, my name is Vance and I am from Winnipeg Canada. I have a
question about a flop that I run into now and again. While playing
$1.00/$2.00 pot limit at the local poker room the Barca, I sometimes
touch the bottom pair when the other two cards on the flop pair. For
example, I have K-J and the flop is rainbow Q-Q-J. I am first to act, so I
check, and one person bets the pot. Everyone else folds around to me.
Now, do I put the raiser on a queen or a jack, possibly A-J? What advice
do you have in this situation? Vance
P.S. From what I see on the television, you are quite an excellent
player! Keep up the good work!
Dear Vance,
Well Vance, I see a few problems here. First of all K-J is usually not
a great hand to be playing when you are first to act after the flop. Unless
you are seeing the flop from the blinds, you probably don’t want to be
in the pot with it from an early position.
When I see a flop like that, and I have more than one opponent, I’m
typically very concerned that someone may have a queen. Queens are
cards that people like to play and, unless you are facing only one opponent,
there’s a decent chance that there’s a queen out there. Also, if
your opponent does have a queen, he would be likely to check, trying to
trap, rather than bet out.
The fact that you’re betting out might lead your opponent to raise you
on a bluff, thinking it unlikely that you actually have the goods. If you
wanted to represent a queen here, it would work much better if you
checked and then raised your opponent, just like you would do if you
actually had a queen.
What hand do you put your opponent on when he bets this flop? If it
is just you and him, then he may not have a queen; but unless you
specifically know that he’s the type of player who bluffs a lot, I don’t
think you can call here. If there are multiple opponents in the hand,
then you can be almost sure that this opponent has a queen, because
he would be unlikely to bluff in this spot with players still to act
behind him.
The best thing you can do is not get yourself into these situations in
the first place and fold that hand pre-flop. If you do find yourself in this
spot – out of position with a vulnerable hand – play it very cautiously
and be ready to get rid of it if you feel any pressure. You will save a lot
of money in the long run.
Clonie
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